Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, Ramananda-samvad, Murwillumbah, 30Apr05

Comment

Comment by murari das das on October 3, 2007 at 10:20pm

-by varnasrama dharma one cannot achieve svarup siddhi or svarup anubhandi.
Being situated within varnasrama may however facilitate the opportunity for svarup siddhi thru associating with pure devotees of Krsna and engaging in sravanam kirtanam visno smaranam pada sevanam....
-sadhu sanga nama kirtan bhagavat sravana
sri murtira mathura vasa sraddhaya sevana
-RR offered yat karosi yad asnasi....and it was also rejected by Mahaprabhu
-this verse implies karma misra bhakti or karma arpanam meaning bhakt mixed with ones own desires. This involves offering to Krsna that which we desire in order to be simultaneously purified.eg cooking and offering pizza to the deities because we like pizza. The offering is therefore not purely based on Krsna's desire or free of selfish motive and is therefore termed karma misra bhakti.
-we can therefore offer the whole world to Krsna, however if we have not offered our own hearts we will not achieve the supreme result.
-Vamanadeva took everything from Bali Maharaj with 2 steps until Bali realised that he still hadn't given himself to the Lord ( svarup siddha bhakti ).
He then offered for the Lord to put his third step on his head and therefore offered himself to the Lord and performed svarup siddha bhakti.
-the reason RR was starting from lower dharma and progressing upward is that it's easier to appreciate something sublime if we have something else to compare it with.
-on karma arpanam...are we the doers ? no
-Krsna is the doer
-we cannot even make an offering without the superintendance of Krsna.
-we should simply desire to please Krsna and His associates.

Comment by murari das das on October 3, 2007 at 9:20pm

varnasram cont'd:
-discussion between Ramananda Raya and Lord Caitanya.
-what is sadya and what is sadhana ?
-what is the goal of life and how can it be achieved?
-goal: gopi prema . process: follow the gopis
-bhakti is both sadya (goal) and sadhana (process).
- sva dharma ( constitutional duty) is sadya
-Varnasrama dharma pertains to the material body and the 3 modes of material nature and not to sva dharma which is transcendental.
Lord Caitanya therefore rejected the idea of varnasrama dharma as being to topmost goal because in and of itself it does not pertain to our sva dharma as eternal servants of Krsna.
Ultimate goal (sadya):
-The 1st suggestion given by Ramananda Raya was that of varnasrama. catur varnyam maya srstam...
-designed by Krsna to organise society into an efficient and cultured unit for the purpose of advancing in Krsna Consciousness.
-Krsna is pleased with such an endeavour.
-Mahaprabhu considered varnasrama dharma external as it only pertains to the material plane and asked for another suggestion pertaining to the ultimate goal.
-Without connecting the individual soul to the supreme soul Krsna all other endeavours are essentially useless. dharma svanisthita pumsam...
-the goal of life is transcendental and eternal and is attained by sanatana dharma (the eternal religion of the soul).
-varnasrama dharma is therefore not sanatana dharma because varna and asrama is not eternal and subject to change.
-the goal of sanatana dharma is prema, pure love Krsna.
-Lord Caitanya therefore proceeds to reject all suggestions of RR until he arrives at svarup anubhandi , or the constitutional svarup of the soul.
-varnasrama dharma is said to be designed to please visnu.
- Because Visnu is an expansion of Krsna for the purpose of creation and maintanence of the material universes, the atma has no eternal relationship with Visnu.
-So varnasrama only satisfies Visnu in relation to the created material world.
-One may rise up from tamo guna, rajo guna, sattva guna and be elevated to the heavenly planets, however cannot gain entrance into Goloka Vrndavan thru performance of varnasrama dharma alone.
-the positive side of varnasrama dharma is the culture of respecting seniors, thus utilising the opportunity to effectively associate with and serve sadhus.
-because the designations within varnasrama are temporary Lord Caitanya sung the verse naham vipro...I am not a brahmana etc. I am not a Sannyasi etc...I am simply the eternal servant of the servant of Krsna.
- sva means own
-therefore our sva dharma is jivera svarup haya....
-real visnu bhakti is Krsna bhakti.
-visnu bhakti refers to varnasrama dharma.
-therefore service to others (mother, father, friends, collegues etc.) within the realm of varnasrama dharma is pleasing to visnu.